reeko
Champion Author
Dallas
Posts:2,294
Points:559,715
Joined:Aug 2005
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:55:11 AM
more typical biofuel moonbattery from moonbats. somebody needs to put a "big oil" carbon footprint on their backsides. carbon footprint indeed. how silly.
"Drill here. Drill now. Dig coal. Build nukes."
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byoftDad
Champion Author
Columbus
Posts:2,051
Points:755,945
Joined:Apr 2005
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:53:51 AM
Some time the effervescence of the author over shadows their meaning and when they publish their article with personal ideas and myths they soon loose the meaning of the subject in an array of words that mean little or nothing and they continue to write regardless of this misrepresentation and produce a topic far from the reality of the universe and far beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. This article holds true to these principals.
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fedex09
All-Star Author
Missouri
Posts:605
Points:656,035
Joined:Jan 2006
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:52:51 AM
Yea right, if big oil is involved you can bet it is to stop it.
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investmentdr
All-Star Author
Cleveland
Posts:524
Points:531,650
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:52:23 AM
conflict of interest? I am sure they would rather table it as product diversification.
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silvolvo
Sophomore Author
Twin Cities
Posts:244
Points:581,345
Joined:Apr 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:51:14 AM
can you say CONFLICT OF INTEREST if Big Oil is involved in this!
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investmentdr
All-Star Author
Cleveland
Posts:524
Points:531,650
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:51:13 AM
can you blame them for protecting their interests. it's be nice it it weren't cloaked, but this is big oil we're talking about.
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hwmillerster
Champion Author
Missouri
Posts:1,858
Points:499,915
Joined:Oct 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:50:31 AM
I can see it now, vast tracks of trees grown specifically for biofuels owned by oil companies.
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SUPERQUACK
Champion Author
Sacramento
Posts:1,472
Points:987,100
Joined:Jun 2007
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:48:54 AM
WHO DO YOU BELIEVE ?
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esorsd
Champion Author
St. Louis
Posts:1,092
Points:693,025
Joined:May 2005
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:48:39 AM
Keep looking, we've got to come up with a solution before we completely run out of crude oil.
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bbreff
Champion Author
Atlanta
Posts:5,179
Points:1,640,095
Joined:Jun 2005
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:46:24 AM
Research papers mean nothing without good production methods.
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Greg6901
All-Star Author
Oakland
Posts:577
Points:220,730
Joined:Jan 2010
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:38:51 AM
Carbon footprint?
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Wolfwings
Champion Author
Delaware
Posts:3,932
Points:819,530
Joined:May 2004
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:36:32 AM
Since there have been NO studies showing that biofuels are BETTER for cars, I suspect that ALL papers have been paid for by Big Oil.
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madison8359
Champion Author
Cleveland
Posts:2,890
Points:624,335
Joined:Apr 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:36:13 AM
The question being is it better to have renewable forms of fuel or stick with oil?
Well if you are big oil you know the answer!
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POLELANE
Champion Author
Ohio
Posts:6,334
Points:721,270
Joined:Mar 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:31:37 AM
if your vehicle is out of gas; it won't make much noise after the battery dies
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FordF2502001
Champion Author
Mississippi
Posts:3,077
Points:668,125
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:26:15 AM
Mmene: so we should use oil to depletion then what do you propose we do?
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walkit1
Champion Author
Memphis
Posts:1,263
Points:721,680
Joined:Jan 2007
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:24:34 AM
This green movement, where these guys went out and made jobs up to police everyone is just as bad!
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unicornpmb
Champion Author
Buffalo
Posts:3,537
Points:653,150
Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:23:42 AM
Its hard to find something big oil is not behind involving research.
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ebowMA
Veteran Author
Boston
Posts:318
Points:394,635
Joined:Apr 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:23:18 AM
What we need is more information, including info on who is behind each research effort. But I think most people are too thick to know what to do with more information.
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rfe330
All-Star Author
Winston-Salem
Posts:700
Points:229,275
Joined:Nov 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:21:21 AM
Can anything be worse than a dictatorship by Opec and Exxon?
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Jarod13
Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:2,885
Points:639,475
Joined:Oct 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:19:38 AM
Since biofuels utilize renewable energy sources, we should be able to have an endless supply to meet our needs, while at the same time restricting the amount of pollution released into our atmosphere. It should be a win, win situation, but since all the players don't follow the rules, it only causes an erosion of our ecosystem and places a greater burden on us to develop more cleaner, energy efficient vehicles and machinery. Solar, wind and hydro technologies need to be exploited to the maximum extent possible!
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Tekkie
Champion Author
Philadelphia
Posts:2,302
Points:509,860
Joined:Oct 2003
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:17:20 AM
More baloney!
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nehemiah
Champion Author
Portland
Posts:1,027
Points:136,495
Joined:Jul 2007
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:13:59 AM
yet another reason we need to look for other alternatives to oil
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CatMan623
Champion Author
Houston
Posts:8,608
Points:1,383,775
Joined:Aug 2006
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:13:33 AM
Keep the government out of it and let the market decide. I'd much rather go down that road than the one labelled "government controlled".
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dollarwatcher
Champion Author
Wisconsin
Posts:3,012
Points:564,725
Joined:Mar 2007
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:07:26 AM
Sorry to say it but crude is the only way.
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Paw5X
Champion Author
Gary
Posts:5,719
Points:1,543,645
Joined:May 2005
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:06:06 AM
It boils down to "we need more alternative, cost effective fuel options.
Plain & simple.
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saleboss
All-Star Author
Phoenix
Posts:760
Points:549,795
Joined:Feb 2006
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:03:55 AM
Why destroy the ecosystem balance for fuels that take more energy to create than they can produce?
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VWC
Veteran Author
Maryland
Posts:378
Points:648,215
Joined:Oct 2004
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:00:49 AM
The last paragraph of the article says, "Oh, I forgot, our country doesn’t make policy decisions on sound science." - like man-made global warming?
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flyfast
Champion Author
Kansas City
Posts:4,521
Points:879,275
Joined:Jan 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:58:50 AM
if you need wood cut a tree down and plant a new one
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1988MR2guy
All-Star Author
California
Posts:658
Points:233,195
Joined:Oct 2009
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:53:14 AM
If speculators were removed from the market, crude would be trading between $25 and $35 a barrel, and not flirting with "breaking $100"...
Some rule changes would do this - quickly and simply:
1. require that buyers of futures contracts have the physical capacity to TAKE DELIVERY
2. require that sellers of futures contracts either possess the actual product, or be in the actual business of producing/growing/manufacturing the actual product
3. make naked short-selling illegal - period.
4. restore the up-tick rule for covered short sales.
No action by "congress" is needed - just a rule change by the SEC, an almost overnight process should they decide to "grow a pair" and do what needs be done.
Remember: the opposite of PRO is CON
So - that must mean the opposite of PROgress is CONgress...
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NorthglennBill
Champion Author
Denver
Posts:3,038
Points:577,980
Joined:Oct 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:48:16 AM
We just need to get away from biofuels all together. Not one source yet, whether it is corn, trees, algae, or whatever has been shown to be good for the car, good for the planet, or good for anyone except farmers and oil companies.
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plebe2001de
Champion Author
Delaware
Posts:1,077
Points:221,615
Joined:Nov 2009
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:41:22 AM
We should question all research and look at the methods and logic of each research paper.
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pecos
Champion Author
Columbus
Posts:3,778
Points:1,254,155
Joined:Jul 2005
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:40:15 AM
Cars makers just have to figure out which direction to go.
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njerald
Champion Author
Seattle
Posts:2,907
Points:669,405
Joined:Oct 2007
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:40:02 AM
Yawn.....
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whistlepig71
Champion Author
Dayton
Posts:7,510
Points:1,132,010
Joined:Aug 2006
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:36:42 AM
The most valuable uses for ethanol are what they have been for centuries: getting a buzz and killing brain cells.
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yukonjack
Champion Author
Georgia
Posts:4,404
Points:1,141,995
Joined:Oct 2004
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:35:55 AM
maybe they should be working on capturing all the auto emissions and converting it to fuel... a perpetual source.
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mmene
Champion Author
Houston
Posts:2,580
Points:587,420
Joined:May 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:35:51 AM
It looks like the author of the article might be the one missing an ounce of sense. Seems like a prejudiced article written by a member of the ethanol lobby because she hardly seems interested in the facts either. If she has a narrow agenda why is her opinion worth anything more than a study partly funded by an oil company? Does she not see the irony in criticizing a paper produced by a group funded by big oil and she is countering it with quotes from "the ethanol industry". Does that seem like an unbiased source of information?
The closest she has to a factual argument is to say that in 2009 we produced the same amount of corn from 7 million less acres of land. I don't know the numbers but I am willing to assume they are correct. Does that imply that we can safely assume that every year we will produce more and more corn from less and less land till eventually be meeting all our needs from no land at all? Or does she think there has to be a saturation point at which more land is needed. If her premise were true then even apart from ethanol there would be no starvation in the third world as countries would just keep producing more food from less land. These arguments are not any more rational than those who dispute the fact that oil is a limited resource because we keep discovering new finds every year. That ignores that fact that at some point we would have to have found all the sources because we know for sure that we are consuming oil faster than the earths geology is creating new oil.
Reality is that there are a ton of problems with ethanol. Now I am all for producing ethanol from biowaste. This obviously does not increase land use since the feed is left over from products (like corn) that were being produced for a different reason anyway. But producing crops just to produce ethanol and diverting food sources to produce fuel is terrible policy. Even if I believed that we can produce more corn from less land I would rather use the corn to bring down food prices and eliminate hunger rather than filling up cars. And yes, I know this is completely separate from the land use argument, my point is that there is a spectrum of reasons why ethanol from food is bad policy:
- It is uneconomical and has to be subsidized
- It is bad for vehicles engines
- It increases food prices (ironically a subsidy is being used to increase food prices and decrease access to food for the poor).
- Land use arguments that it will increase the need for cultivable land
I could keep going but I think even that is enough of an argument against food based ethanol.
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zdn
Champion Author
New Jersey
Posts:1,214
Points:317,980
Joined:Sep 2009
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:30:11 AM
conflict of interest?
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eddyp94
Champion Author
Ontario
Posts:4,176
Points:872,360
Joined:Mar 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:28:31 AM
biofuels are a long way off...
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Vigdia
Champion Author
Los Angeles
Posts:1,240
Points:214,170
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:24:30 AM
We have to drill now and at the same time look for an alternative energy...
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Jeff1944
All-Star Author
South Dakota
Posts:843
Points:213,340
Joined:Jan 2010
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:22:30 AM
Ethanol because of the Congress supporting corn production.
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Jamer
Champion Author
Orange County
Posts:3,987
Points:701,500
Joined:Jul 2002
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:17:43 AM
Don't like ethanol, never have and never will.
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Bud122CA
Champion Author
California
Posts:2,980
Points:680,455
Joined:Jul 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:11:41 AM
Anyone with common sense would ask, Why are we using ethanol???
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jarrjazz1
Champion Author
British Columbia
Posts:2,189
Points:446,240
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:10:24 AM
until then...keep conserving!
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Plebe2001
Champion Author
Philadelphia
Posts:2,276
Points:410,900
Joined:Jul 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:09:34 AM
Ok I still do not like ethanol.
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GryphonX
Champion Author
Nevada
Posts:2,877
Points:731,455
Joined:Nov 2007
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:07:59 AM
I have no problem with the concept of Indirect Land Usage (or unintended consequences, for that matter), but that means apply it to the ENTIRE energy industry, including Big Oil, Coal, Natural Gas, Nuclear, etc.
Don't single out the newest industry and hamstring them (in order to prevent competition)
Whoops!
[Edited by: GryphonX at 3/12/2010 12:08:45 PM EST]
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StickySam
Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:2,796
Points:589,160
Joined:Nov 2007
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:06:21 AM
Bio fuel is worthless if one has to rip up the rain forest. It is all about money !
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Lengas
Champion Author
Gary
Posts:8,393
Points:1,742,100
Joined:Nov 2004
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:05:24 AM
Get ethanol out of my gas tank.
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VTROCK
Champion Author
Detroit
Posts:1,987
Points:426,780
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:05:15 AM
If we could make our cars run on bulls**t, we would be able to get an unlimited supply out of Washington.
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sg413
Champion Author
California
Posts:2,029
Points:449,010
Joined:Apr 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:04:37 AM
Is there such a thing as an independent research report. Why would anyone conduct research and produce a report if they didn't have a reason for doing it.
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slvrdo_dsprdo
Champion Author
Nashville
Posts:1,852
Points:372,680
Joined:Jul 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 10:04:17 AM
Hmm, big corps sponsoring scientific research. This won't be biased at all.
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rsm315
All-Star Author
Detroit
Posts:838
Points:219,530
Joined:Dec 2009
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 9:59:09 AM
more bla bla
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MightyDude
Champion Author
Minnesota
Posts:5,351
Points:1,675,320
Joined:Mar 2003
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 9:58:47 AM
more BOHA
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