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Big Oil Behind Yet Another Biofuels Research Paper

Domestic Fuel -- When discussing indirect land use it brings a popular saying to mind: If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound? Only in this situation the saying should be modified as follows: If a tree is cut down in a rainforest in Brazil to sell wood, should corn ethanol’s carbon footprint go up? Anyone with an ounce of commonsense would say no.

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Submitted Mar 12, 2010 By: GM

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kelsielee Champion Author Atlanta Posts:3,266 Points:629,815 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Mar 13, 2010 3:05:10 PM Ignore kelsielee Report Abuse Strange commentary. Although very few are fans of big oil, just as few are fans of corn ethanol. Trying to get support for one position by blaming the other "villan" may not work when the position (in this case support for corn ethanol) is so unpopular.
eddmac Champion Author Washington Posts:4,325 Points:957,855 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 4:40:16 PM Ignore eddmac Report Abuse I think the author is right, to much wrong with reasoning. A big AND is Big Oil is funding this sham. I feel smoke and mirrors at play here. [Edited by: eddmac at 3/12/2010 6:41:21 PM EST]
BEngr Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,522 Points:574,730 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 2:38:52 PM Ignore BEngr Report Abuse This article doesn't make much sense, because indirect land use is not the major problem. Big oil has a vested interest in any research that deflect the attention away from them.
Kato51 Champion Author Atlanta Posts:2,646 Points:1,237,410 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 2:07:14 PM Ignore Kato51 Report Abuse Looks like we are injecting a little humor into our analysis. Lets keep the food on the table where it belongs.
rippertoo All-Star Author Tacoma Posts:603 Points:129,260 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:51:17 PM Ignore rippertoo Report Abuse What did they say?
Rajah Champion Author Illinois Posts:4,548 Points:1,478,390 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:49:40 PM Ignore Rajah Report Abuse Forget Ethanol from food crops or from crops grown in land that could be used for actual food crops.
1Casey Champion Author Albany Posts:1,941 Points:960,450 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:47:59 PM Ignore 1Casey Report Abuse Rain forest - Corn ?
Gassed01 Champion Author Toronto Posts:1,616 Points:816,225 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:46:58 PM Ignore Gassed01 Report Abuse No more ethanol. Fuel for food is wrong. Ethanol is not a net energy saver.
esquared Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:3,783 Points:1,112,425 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:40:28 PM Ignore esquared Report Abuse No more subsidies for fuel from food.
RobRD Champion Author Alberta Posts:3,828 Points:896,020 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:39:40 PM Ignore RobRD Report Abuse So what.
Jeeputtputt All-Star Author Cincinnati Posts:523 Points:143,675 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:39:20 PM Ignore Jeeputtputt Report Abuse What???????????
MahopacJack Champion Author New York Posts:2,735 Points:685,200 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:36:00 PM Ignore MahopacJack Report Abuse While the paper may have a bias to any result, it is up front about it.
katmandue Champion Author Detroit Posts:2,959 Points:1,134,105 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:32:09 PM Ignore katmandue Report Abuse Anything to keep the oil flowing.
suzyq2007 Champion Author Dallas Posts:2,609 Points:739,625 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:31:35 PM Ignore suzyq2007 Report Abuse does this really make any sense
Bubba44612 Champion Author Ohio Posts:2,466 Points:877,375 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:30:39 PM Ignore Bubba44612 Report Abuse Give us a clean energy or is that too hard?
2granny Champion Author Michigan Posts:4,029 Points:448,450 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:29:02 PM Ignore 2granny Report Abuse No way.
JMJarvis1952 Champion Author Houston Posts:1,450 Points:379,905 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:28:19 PM Ignore JMJarvis1952 Report Abuse I agree with Tekkie
snofog All-Star Author Seattle Posts:623 Points:92,655 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:28:10 PM Ignore snofog Report Abuse Amazing.
TRAIN RIDER Champion Author San Bernardino Posts:4,086 Points:1,758,690 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:27:23 PM Ignore TRAIN RIDER Report Abuse CUTTING DOWN THE RAIN FOREST IS ALSO NOT A GOOD IDEA. WHEN WE LOG AN AREA WE THEN REPLANT TREES SO IT WILL STAY A FOREST. THEY ARE NOT REPLANTING.
arnerator Champion Author Seattle Posts:3,042 Points:616,335 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:27:14 PM Ignore arnerator Report Abuse Get rid of ethanol
Dennisjk Champion Author Detroit Posts:2,512 Points:1,007,285 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:19:25 PM Ignore Dennisjk Report Abuse I agree with Texasvet.
texasvet Champion Author Texas Posts:1,326 Points:151,480 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:16:40 PM Ignore texasvet Report Abuse Another propaganda piece by an author who admits in the article that he's completely unqualified to comment. Typical leftist enviro-whacko pap.
Fencemaker Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:2,869 Points:697,965 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:14:12 PM Ignore Fencemaker Report Abuse Big Oil has been making these kinds of plays for years. They'll do anything to retain their crown in the transportation fueling business.
OldMan322 Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,111 Points:614,820 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:10:27 PM Ignore OldMan322 Report Abuse Oh yes !!! an oil company smoke screen
sailormon Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,866 Points:460,790 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:07:59 PM Ignore sailormon Report Abuse So this is Big Oil propaganda.
tc316 Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:3,852 Points:747,910 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:07:28 PM Ignore tc316 Report Abuse Baloney
julius1st4 Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,662 Points:799,190 Joined:Jul 2003	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:01:12 PM Ignore julius1st4 Report Abuse What's the point of this article. When a tree falls in the forest; I just hope that I'm not in it's way. If it's not too hard to get at; then, I'll cut it up and take it home for "Firewood"
ReadyWriter Sophomore Author Columbus Posts:236 Points:12,755 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:40:54 PM Ignore ReadyWriter Report Abuse If a tree falls in the forest, whether anyone hears it or not, some day someone will find this a good reason to raise oil prices.
outlaw329 Champion Author Austin Posts:2,622 Points:427,385 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:37:36 PM Ignore outlaw329 Report Abuse Not interested.
FordF2502001 Champion Author Mississippi Posts:2,867 Points:627,640 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:31:48 PM Ignore FordF2502001 Report Abuse If corn based ethanol is bad I assume bio waste ethanol will be just as bad for mileage or engines. So ethanol is dead. Next up is solar which leaves me wanting more mileage. Wind doesn't always blow. Water doesn't flow everywhere. Nuclear waste keeps new plants from coming online. Algae is replacing catfish in ponds in Mississippi. Conservation is the last one standing until the next new energy source is viable. Humm???
OHMS Champion Author Orange County Posts:7,786 Points:873,885 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:29:21 PM Ignore OHMS Report Abuse research papers burn; hence are alternate fuels; @ this point I suspect oil isn't hot to advertise successes.
tarheelcoastie Veteran Author Greensboro Posts:368 Points:170,960 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:27:07 PM Ignore tarheelcoastie Report Abuse Interesting!
Hugo40 Champion Author Kentucky Posts:2,548 Points:612,385 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:26:13 PM Ignore Hugo40 Report Abuse The pharmaceutical companies also fund research that shows their products in a good light so it's an old game.
diatzikis All-Star Author Raleigh Posts:718 Points:193,305 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:26:08 PM Ignore diatzikis Report Abuse Bad idea
aarrrt Champion Author San Diego Posts:2,809 Points:678,625 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:24:54 PM Ignore aarrrt Report Abuse Not shocking information but enough of the corn ethanol already. It's not the answer.
ricker8 Champion Author Ontario Posts:2,211 Points:447,390 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:23:54 PM Ignore ricker8 Report Abuse here we go
Buck_on_Bass Champion Author Tennessee Posts:2,609 Points:563,715 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:21:29 PM Ignore Buck_on_Bass Report Abuse A year or so ago, an article on GasBuddy discussed the results of a University of Minnesota research study that concluded that ethanol from corn was more costly to the environmentally than oil. The study looked at the total production chain along with cutting forests and clearing land for producing more food for people to make up for the corn used for ethanol. As for the integrity of the research, the last time I checked, Minnesota was primarily an agricultural state so I doubt this was a 'big oil' bought result. Congress refuses to look at the total cost of the ethanol program because farm interests vote and give money to candidates.
justinoles All-Star Author Orlando Posts:719 Points:145,935 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:19:31 PM Ignore justinoles Report Abuse Ethanol is bad. Stop the subsidies and it will fall...
Sealer Champion Author Charleston Posts:5,648 Points:837,475 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:16:42 PM Ignore Sealer Report Abuse Corn ethanol is neither economically viabe nor ecologically helpful.
SVmike Veteran Author California Posts:433 Points:98,410 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:13:35 PM Ignore SVmike Report Abuse seerlv: "The oil companies have killed off competition for years through price manipulation and political donations. They will continue those efforts in the future to be sure. " Yes, everything is a conspiracy. Like those 100 mpg carburetor patents in the 1970's. Big oil bought all the patents to prevent them from coming to market. If these things existed, don't you think that someone would find some of these "expired" patents, build the device and make a killing on them. Or a car company would make a car with it? Yes, I'm sure that everyone funds research that is in their best interest. But who does the research? Lots of it is done in colleges where the boots on the ground are students with no real self interest except to get a good grade and publish a paper impressive enough to get them hired. And even if they faked the results another student would likely know it was wrong a publish the opposite finding for their research.
Dipstick1 Champion Author Amarillo Posts:4,924 Points:1,436,240 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:13:09 PM Ignore Dipstick1 Report Abuse Surprise, surprise.
ladyaglow Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:267 Points:146,335 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:12:56 PM Ignore ladyaglow Report Abuse ignore it and drill baby drill.
goldilox88 Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,058 Points:585,955 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:09:14 PM Ignore goldilox88 Report Abuse Same old. Same old.
danny999 Champion Author Florida Posts:3,502 Points:622,705 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:05:30 PM Ignore danny999 Report Abuse TAKE YOUR ETHENOL AND LET THE CONGRESSMAN PUT IT IN THEIR CARS....
mmene Champion Author Houston Posts:2,378 Points:547,820 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:04:20 PM Ignore mmene Report Abuse FordF2502001 - so are you suggesting that ethanol based on food sources is the only alternative to oil? Well if you want to know what I propose to do, it is any combination of: - Ethanol from biowaste - Solar - Wind - Tidal power - Nuclear - Hydroelectric - Other innovative projects like fast growing algae (which are probably really just variants of other techniques mentioned) - Conservation so we use less energy per capita Since it will take decades for oil to run out this gives us plenty of time to figure out the winners from these and gradually transition. We probably will use either electricity or fuel cells for storing energy in vehicles, it is too early to say which. But it is absurd to think that our only alternative is to use food sources for energy and compromise world food security.
rimpyCA Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:1,460 Points:303,545 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:01:41 PM Ignore rimpyCA Report Abuse use renewables
hblee Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,746 Points:587,385 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 12:01:38 PM Ignore hblee Report Abuse Those who make decisions or speculations do not put common sense to good use.
Bleeder Champion Author Virginia Posts:3,746 Points:782,030 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:58:23 AM Ignore Bleeder Report Abuse Unfortunately those with the common sense are not making the laws these days. You people elected the man and now (unfortunately) we all have to live with him.
reeko Champion Author Dallas Posts:2,093 Points:519,280 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:55:11 AM Ignore reeko Report Abuse more typical biofuel moonbattery from moonbats. somebody needs to put a "big oil" carbon footprint on their backsides. carbon footprint indeed. how silly. "Drill here. Drill now. Dig coal. Build nukes."
byoftDad Champion Author Columbus Posts:1,940 Points:730,790 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 11:53:51 AM Ignore byoftDad Report Abuse Some time the effervescence of the author over shadows their meaning and when they publish their article with personal ideas and myths they soon loose the meaning of the subject in an array of words that mean little or nothing and they continue to write regardless of this misrepresentation and produce a topic far from the reality of the universe and far beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. This article holds true to these principals.